LEZ Basic Empty Weight

[Radioflyer]

Hey Drew,

In your post #140, way on top of this thread, did you mean to say that your your O-235 (and not the O-320) weighed 970 pounds? And if so, what was the resulting weight with the O-320 upconversion?

[Drew]

From what I remember (and I may not be remembering correctly), I think I went from the low to mid 900s to about 970 (O320).  I think that I needed another 10lbs of ballast or so upfront.  Long noses are good when the backend gets heavy (I had a short nose).  The increase in weight was not that big of a deal----the climb perf and takeoff perf was eyewatering.

For my conversion...
-upper extrusions replaced and beefed up
-engine mount beefed up by Ronneburg
-vert master cylinders removed from firewall---laydown cylinders put upfront---stratoflex lines all the way
-cowls remade for downdraft cooling
-simplified baffling constructed
-push/pull cables
-wheelpants constructed
-Hal Hunt exhaust
-engine monitor
-Dynon Efis

Things that were not done but were on my list if I kept the plane
-Since I had the Hal Hunt exhaust, I could remove the engine hump on the lower cowl
-fair in the sump blisters
-gearleg fairings

Oh---one other thing I forgot to mention about Cozys and Longs.  The Longez is a more comfortable airplane for the pilot.  You actually have more room in the front seat of a Longez than a Cozy---even when solo in a Cozy.  That kind of sounds weird---but the Cozy airframe and canopy come real close to your head and left shoulder.  So even when you don't have a person sitting on the right side, you are still kind of scrunched on the left side.  This little nit is really not that objectionable----but you have all kinds of room in a Longez.  Now, if you want to talk about refolding charts in the cockpit, a Longez is just about impossible----and quite easy in a Cozy.

[Dave in Eugene]

Drew... using round #'s would you be willing to disclose your budget to go from and 0-235 to an 0-320...

Thanks,

Dave

[Drew]

I looked in my Quicken file under airplane maintance for the time period in question and it came up to 23000 dollars---but this may have included things other than the upgrade.  Some of the obvious breakouts were:
-Lycon 0320EXP $15309 (included giving them my O235 core)
-Saber 8 inch extension $731
-Hertzler Silver Bullet $980
-Hal Hunt exhaust/carb box/stratoflex lines/rudder pedal welding for front master cylinders $1467
-Berkut Engineering--engine mount modification $150
-Engine Monitor-$1400

You will need metal and rubber baffling, hoses (hoses run about 300 or so for the who thing), glass, and epoxy (assuming you are doing downdraft).

Other things needed----oil cooler, starter, alternator, etc.  The bigger engine will take bigger hoses and fittings (-8?).

I have documented somewhere on this site the parts I used for push pull cables---and some tips on how to do it.  Don't use the bike cables for the O320!  As a matter of fact---for all pusher guys out there that have the bike cables----take the return spring off the throttle and see if you can still actuate the throttle.  If you can still actuate in both directions----but looks like it would be "spongy" in the air---this is ok.  The spring is supposed to take the "spongy-ness" out of the system.  If you cannot actuate the throttle in both directions, then don't fly the plane----convert to push pull.  Rutan only intended the spring to take the sloppiness out of the system

[Bruce Hughes]

Someone said to replace the starter with a Skytec, B & C, or Honda.
I don't know which Honda starter he is talking about but I had a LOT
of trouble trying to start with a Honda.   Even got a new one when the
old one would not do it.   No Joy.   I junked it and got a B & C.

Also dumped the old gas and put in some new gas at the same time.  
So I DON'T REALLY KNOW that the Honda was the problem.   The B & C
is geared and the Honda was not.  

I THINK the Honda was the trouble or at least part of the trouble.   The
damn thing cost me big bucks because I bought new spark plugs, mail
charge for the electronic ignition to be checked, rebuilt magneto, new
battery.  

I think NON-GEARED starters are worthless.

[Waiter]

I have a Toyota Camry starter. Permanent magnet and geared, with built in starter solenoid.  Cranks an O-320 with no problems.

There was a guy who sold these a couple years ago. It was an adapter plate that mounted up to the standard starter pad, then the Toyota starter bolted to this. I think it already mates to the 144 tooth ring.

Waiter

[Joe Dubner]

I think NON-GEARED starters are worthless.

Bruce, please send me all your surplus non-geared starters.   And how about your old spark plugs and battery too? :-)

Like Waiter, I have an automotive starter (Honda or Toyota; can't remember which) on my Lyc O235-L2C (with high compression pistons).  It has a built-in "solenoid" that is jumpered to the main power lead which is fed through an additional external starter "solenoid".  (These "solenoids" are really contactors, not solenoids.)  Two friends in Phoenix milled me an aluminum mounting bracket for it.  Replacing my old Prestolite with it did three things:
  1.  Saved me a few pounds in the nearly the worst possible location.
  2.  Cranked the engine faster.  Starting is a non-issue.
  3.  Netted me a few bucks when I sold that old boat anchor to a Cessna owner on eBay.

There are any number of reasons (electrical and mechanical) why a particular starter fails in a particular application.  For instance, a permanent magnet starter could drop the battery voltage enough that an EI would not fire correctly if the electrical system was not suitable.  It would be informative to learn the root cause of your particular problem.

[Radioflyer]

I need to save as much weight as I can. I knew about the B&C and Skytec starter alternatives for the O-232L2C. The Skytec is the lighter one of the two and seems to work well. I didn't know there was a Toyota Camry conversion. Would it be significantly lighter and less expensive than the Skytec?

[Waiter]

Would it be significantly lighter and less expensive than the Skytec?

Probably about the same weight (maybe slightly heavier) 1/2 the cost. PLUS, If your starter ever takes a dump, any automotive parts store in the world will have a replacement for $50.
I got mine several years ago, Look in the back of Sport Aviation. You might also look in Trade-A-Plane. It was some guy in FL that had them.

ALSO, Take a look on E-Bay, Look under "AirBoat starter"

Waiter

[Radioflyer]

I looked at the starters in eBay. That was a good tip and am glad I found out about these starters.
I did get a hint somewhere else that the SkyTec starters are mechanically weak, often stripping the ring gear. This is supposedly due to the starter pinion not being supported on the outboard end like the original prestolites. The airboat starters are also not supported on both ends. They might be more rugged than the lighter Skytecs, though. Have they been working well for you?

[Waiter]

I'm not using the "Airboat" starter. but If I was looking for a starter, I would buy one.

I'm using the Toyota Camry starter. This one requires an adapter. The adapter bolts to the standard starter pad, then the Toyota starter bolts to the adapter.

I'm pretty sure I got it out of Trade-A Plane (10 years ago).

I haven't checked the pinion for any play, I'll give it the "wiggle" test this weekend.

I'm very happy with mine, and would highly recommend it.

Waiter